Redeemer Network Podcast
The Redeemer Network exists to catalyze church planting, replanting, and revitalization in Texas and beyond. The purpose of our podcast is to resource our churches in the work of establishing healthy, gospel-centered church-planting churches.
Redeemer Network Podcast
We Support Pastors
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Why do pastors need support? What unique challenges come with leading a church? And how can caring for pastors strengthen the health and mission of the local church?
In Episode 5 of Season 3, Jordan Elder sits down with Redeemer Network pastors Jeremy Buck and Kyle Ogle to discuss the importance of caring for pastors and ministry leaders. Drawing from their own years of pastoral ministry and their work serving churches across the Redeemer Network, they explore the realities of ministry, the weight many pastors carry, and why intentional support is essential for long-term faithfulness.
Along the way, they discuss:
- The unique pressures and challenges of pastoral ministry
- Why loneliness, burnout, and discouragement are common among pastors
- How the Redeemer Network comes alongside pastors through coaching, care, retreats, and crisis support
- Stories of God using pastoral care to strengthen leaders and churches
- Why healthy pastors are essential to healthy churches
- Practical encouragement for pastors who are struggling and wondering what their next step should be
Whether you're a pastor, church leader, ministry volunteer, or church member who wants to better understand the realities of pastoral ministry, this conversation offers a behind-the-scenes look at why caring for pastors matters and how healthy leaders help cultivate healthy churches for the sake of the gospel.
Resources & Links
Barna Research: What Pastors Are Saying About Burnout and Quitting Ministry
https://www.barna.com/trends/pastors-quitting-ministry-barna-data/
Redeemer Network Conference: redeemernetwork.org/conference
Learn more about the Redeemer Network: redeemernetwork.org
Welcome to the Redeemer Network Podcast, where we talk church planning, church health, and multiplying churches for the sake of the gospel. To learn more about the Redeemer Network, visit RedeemerNetwork.org. All right. Well, welcome back to the Redeemer Network Podcast. This season we're talking about what we do as a network. We have three clear priorities training, funding, and support. And in previous episodes, we've discussed how we train both planters, church planters, and uh leaders that are doing replanting and revitalizing. And we've talked about how we fund our funding model. And today we're going to talk about the support arm of the network. In fact, this is going to be the first of several episodes where we talk about the many different ways in which we are supporting ministry leaders toward health in the Redeemer Network. I'm joined today by Jeremy Buck and Kyle Ogle. Jeremy and Kyle are both lead pastors in our network. Kyle's in Brenham, Texas, Center Church. And Jeremy is at Redeemer Pampa in Pampa, Texas. Not only are these guys lead pastors in our network, but they also serve on our network staff supporting other pastors. Jeremy, Kyle, welcome to the podcast.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, thanks, Jordan. It's good to be here.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, good to see you. Jeremy, I I think you and I got to see each other at the Pastor and Wives retreat recently. Powell and I actually got to hang out very recently on a prayer retreat that we took together to Montana. Um, Jeremy, I wanted to throw something your your way, just you know, possibly hypothetically speaking here, if you were, you know, with a friend and you were hiking in Montana and you came upon some bear tracks, what would you do? Would would you run off and just abandon your friend, or would you kind of stick around and stay there and make sure he was okay? Just hypothetically.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, you stick around and stay. I mean, how are you gonna get a good story otherwise?
SPEAKER_02Okay, all right.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, what Kyle, what about you? What would you do in that situation? Look, I'm just gonna say I don't have to be first, but I'm definitely not gonna be last. Okay. And uh in that moment, I walked up on the bear tracks and I was gone. I turn around, you're still hanging out. So uh yeah, I I'm out of there.
SPEAKER_02I I didn't know that Kyle was that fast, honestly. I mean, I I was we we saw these bear tracks, they were massive. Um they were they were going the opposite way from where we were, like they're like the bear had clearly walked away from us. There was no bear tracks coming back toward us, and so I'm thinking I I gotta I gotta try and see this bear. And I felt like I was only standing there of maybe about 10 seconds, but by the time I turn around with Kyla's maybe a quarter of a mile back up the hill and toward toward back down the trail.
SPEAKER_00So he he just Kyle's gonna live to find another day.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I'm out, man. I'm not going out this way. I think it took us an hour and a half to get up. It took us 40 minutes to get down. We were booking it.
SPEAKER_02That's right. It was a good time for sure. And we both came out alive, so that's good, which is what we're talking about today. Uh, helping pastors stay uh in the game in ministry, uh, the work that we do to support pastors. And so I'm actually really excited about this conversation. I love the work that you two guys are doing for our network here. Um, you know, I'm continually amazed at how God has worked through our um our humble efforts, our feeble efforts uh in the Redeemer Network. It feels like we just kind of set out to plant some churches and we looked up, and the Lord has really done a great work among us. And but one of the things that I think I'm most proud about is our our efforts to um to support pastors. Um I'm really proud about that, like our commitment to really caring for pastors, not just trying to, you know, see some guys plant some churches so we can we can count how many churches we've planted, but really, really caring for these leaders in our network, that loving these brothers and their families um and wanting to see them sustain in in the ministry. And so um I want to talk about that today. Let me just set the table a little bit and then I'll I'll I'll kick it to you guys here. But you know, pastoral ministry is uniquely challenging. And I don't have to tell you that, but I do think other people that aren't in pastoral ministry don't understand how uniquely challenging it is. And what I'm not saying is that it's necessarily any harder than anybody else's job. Uh, there are a lot of other people that have difficult jobs, but it is certainly uniquely challenging. In fact, there are many management experts and sociologists who will frequently list the pastorate among the most demanding professions uh that exist in our culture. And that's because pastors face all kinds of unique challenges. Pastors face burnout due to um stress that is often overwhelming. Pastors experience very unrealistic expectations uh from the people in their churches. Sometimes people forget that pastors are just humans uh as well. Um pastors uh seem that they're almost always supposed to be available to everyone. And then plus, there's just a unique emotional burden of burying the the many griefs and sufferings and sorrows that exist in a congregation, and those things can can stack up. In fact, I was just kind of writing down a few things here that I think um is unique about pastors. Um, and let me just list those, and then I want to hear from you guys just to kind of hear how you've experienced this. But you know, one of the unique things that pastors have to juggle is is this kind of 24-7 burden. Um, statistics will tell us that over 80% of pastors feel that they're constantly on call, uh, that they're often dealing with multiple crises at once. Um, you go from prepping a sermon to visiting a hospital to having a leadership meeting, you know, uh, on and on and on. That there's this, yeah, kind of 24-7. I don't really know when my work starts and stops. Weekends are fuzzy, what's my day off? What's not my day off, those sorts of things. Another unique challenge is that pastoral ministry is an extremely multidisciplinary work. Like people expect their pastors to preach a great sermon every week, to be a good marriage counselor, to be a CEO, to be a good fundraiser, to be an event planner, to sometimes be a janitor, um, uh, you know, fix the building's problems, to be a spiritual guide. I mean, just yeah, there's like so many things that a pastor is supposed to do, and they expect a pastor to do it all really well. I think in a lot of other jobs, that's really unique. Um, pastors and their families are often under a microscope. And because the church is a volunteer-driven organization, pastors are frequently targets of criticism. Um, uh, whether it be their sermons or their sermon links, or, you know, the sermon was too deep or it wasn't deep enough, or the service was too long, or, you know, these people left because of that, those kinds of things. They can often feel under a microscope. And then finally, there is a there's a real unique loneliness or an intense isolation uh to pastoral ministry that I think a lot of people don't understand unless you're a pastor. Like you are surrounded by people all the time, but you often you often don't feel like nobody there's there's a lot of people that know you, but nobody that really knows you, that really knows what's going on in your life. There's a profound loneliness. There's few people that pastors can actually be honest with about what's going on in their life and their marriage and their family. And so these are just some of the unique challenges to to pastoral ministry. And so let's start here, Jeremy. Let's start with you. How have you personally experienced this kind of wear and tear of pastoral ministry and in your journey?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, Jordan, I I appreciate the question. I'll be honest, I think I've wrestled with that question a lot. Um, there's an aspect of it that I think reveals calling. And I know calling is is kind of fallen out of favor a little bit in how people think about it. But if I was to put on a whiteboard all that I'm aware of in the congregation, all that I'm dealing with at any one time, if I was to look at the totality of it, by all accounts, I should probably stroke out. And yet, by God's grace, I've I joyfully tackle it every day. And I think there's a measure of just it is an equipping from the Lord that is that is not of man. That there is a grace and a mercy in that that is hard to quantify. And so I've often wrestled with how do I explain what it is that I'm doing on the daily basis when by any any measure of a you know a metric, it it should not be feasible or possible. I certainly don't look at you know my physical broad shoulders or myself and think I've somehow warranted or have just done more or better. It it really is a measure of like, God, thank you. Like you have sustained me in a measure that I should not be sustained. Um and so I want to just kind of wrestle with that first, that uh there is a spiritual component to this that is not quantifiable. Um I think second, it really is a conversation with your spouse to determine what rhythm you're gonna run at and like what pace you're gonna run at. Um seasonally, that may ebb and flow, right? Higher and lower. But you know, I married a woman, Carmen is very high capacity, and so we have chosen to run at a really high, high rate of speed. Um, we have to monitor that to make sure we're not you know gonna blow out on the other end. But it's allowed me to to carry more into and part of that also, Jordan, is probably being in a rural area. We have fewer white-collar professionals here. There's less um less resource in the medical world, less resource in the mental health world. And so the pastor kind of by default's gonna carry a load that maybe in a a more suburban or urban area they don't have to. Um, and so some of it is just recognizing it's the unique call of the place that I'm I'm in as well.
SPEAKER_02So yeah. Yeah. Yeah, it's good. I feel like what I'm hearing you say is that not that those all those things I mentioned aren't real and legit because they are for sure. Uh, and not that you're a superhuman either, but that you have really have experienced kind of supernaturally the Lord sustaining you, rooting you in your calling. And no doubt there have been dozens and dozens of things that have contributed to that. Thing or things that God has used to sustain you and support you in the work, and and we'll be able to get into some of those things uh in a minute. I do I do think that is really key that there is a keeping that the Lord does that that uh that but we also have to walk in some of those things as well. Right. Um, yeah.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, and and I think that's the the part where I would look at it and go, I'm probably not as tired as I should be. It's not that I'm not that I don't experience all that you listed. Like I do have to fight for good friends, um, I do have to um you know wrestle with all the expectations that are random and unexpected. I mean, those things are real. I mean, I I don't want to push back at all. That that is reality. Um But I think when the Lord has called you to it, He sustains you in it in a way that doesn't make sense.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. Cal, what about you, man? What's been your experience in terms of kind of the wear and tear of pastoral ministry?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I think I mean, even as Buck was talking, uh the uh kind of joke that you hear from time to time in the church is well, you only work one day a week. Uh and so I I totally get that, Jeremy, where you're just like, uh, but it the uniqueness there, but also I don't think you really have a maybe a grasp on exactly everything. Another thing you said, Jordan, is and I I think I I would totally agree with the uh and you gotta be a special there's an expectation to be a specialist in everything.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_01And I'm sitting there like, man, like, you know, before I became a pastor, it was only like five years I'd even learned what a budget was personally. So like, and now you expect me to create this and and put all that together. So I I think there's those things, but uh man, personally, as I kind of thought of this question, and you already mentioned it as well, but uh like that that aspect of loneliness and and even friendlessness at times, uh, where you're kind of known of by everyone, but you're not really known by anyone. And I think that's a two-way street, right? Like I think there is the reality that like as pastors, like we need to be vulnerable, we need to be honest, we need to be engaged. And I I know uh at times like I I've seen it experience where the pastor, like you can't they're not approachable. And so uh wanting to be that, but also feeling um, man, it in a lot of moments where where do I fit? Uh, you know, when people hear it it kind of a thing that I started doing a couple of years ago is I wouldn't tell people what I did when I met them. I would wait as long as possible because I knew that as soon as they heard I was a pastor, they were gonna either change, stop talking to me, or run away. And uh and so it's some of that, like, man, you're carrying burdens, uh, man, other people's loneliness, you know, uh, but you rarely, uh maybe a lot of that wrestling is, man, who's caring for me? Who who am I able to engage with and share with? And and we're gonna get into it here in a minute. And that, I mean, the network has been huge. Like, I don't think I would have made it 11 years in pastoral ministry without a network of guys that really say, hey, man, we we want to like know where you're at, but also like, man, we want to be your friend. Uh, and so being able to take trips to Montana or do other things that we do in the network has been huge uh with that wear and tear.
SPEAKER_02I was thinking about my day yesterday. My week isn't always like this, but my day yesterday was really unique. Like I took my kids to school in the morning because my wife was at work, uh, which, you know, so many pastors, their spouses uh don't necessarily want to work. My wife does, but there are a lot of pastors who they don't want to, but maybe they need to because of the financial situation or the cost of living that's gotten out of control in so many different places. But so I take my kids to school, come into the office, have an early morning meeting with a church member that wanted to talk about some missions work that we're doing, then rolled, uh had about a one-hour window to work a little bit on my sermon uh for Sunday that's still unfinished, and then led a staff meeting. So then I like led our team as a staff meeting. So um I've been to dad already that morning, and then I've been uh I've been a mission strategist, and then now I'm a you know a CEO leading a staff meeting, and then and then after the staff meeting, I have a lunch meeting with a uh church with a resident that we have here, and so now I'm like doing leadership development. So now I'm you know kind of been developing him. And then I come back to my office and start working on my sermon again and a little 90-minute window that I had. And so then I'm being a preacher again there, and then I have a 230 meeting with some folks in our church that are homebound, uh, where I'm checking in with them and I'm you know doing pastoral care and um hearing about uh some of their latest health challenges, and you know, so that's just like there's just one normal day in the life of a pastor. And again, like so what do you do? You you just work one day a week and you're like, uh, I don't know what I do actually. I just know I do a lot of stuff all the time, and it all feels different. And so there there is a real there is a real challenge to this work where there's a lot of support that's needed. And I think most people don't realize how much support pastors really need and often don't get. And statistics will tell us that 25% of pastors think about quitting ministry regularly. And I think it's probably because they don't have the support that that they have that day that I just described, they have so many of those that are probably even harder than my day that I described. And they're just like, there's gotta be something easier to do with my life. And um, now what's interesting is that number, 25% of pastors think about quitting ministry regularly. That comes from Barna, some recent Barna research. I'll link to that in the show notes. But that number is actually down from 2022. So coming out of the pandemic, it was 42% of pastors thought about quitting regularly. Can you imagine if almost half of the pastors in our country just quit? Like that would be terrible. That'd be terrible for the church. Um, and so thankfully that number is coming down, and I think it's because a lot of people have been paying attention to the need to support and care for pastors to invest in their health. And so that's certainly something that we've cared about from the beginning. It's certainly something that we're actively doing. So let's talk about that. When we say we support pastors in the network, what does that actually mean? What do we do as a network?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I mean, there's there's several things. Uh I mean, initially in the early days, it it really emerged that with just some phone calls of checking in on the regular with no agenda, like just calling and asking questions. And so we have now continued that. We've um Kyle and I both do that. Um Kate Ritchie does that for for wives, where we call on the regular um each of our pastors with no no agenda just to ask how things are going to let them really lead the conversation, whether that is personal, whether that is spiritual, whether that is church leadership, whether that's marriage or kids, or something going on in their community, to just know they have an outlet um that's not within their church, right? That doesn't have um uh a bias locally, but just wants to care, love, and hear from them. Um really the goal was to say that each of our pastors would would feel like they had a pastor, someone that they could talk to that was for them.
SPEAKER_02So that's a little bit different than like coaching. So, like, you know, coaching would be like, hey, call and check and coaching is good. We do that too, and people need that, but hey, just call and check in. Like, how's Sunday go?
unknownYeah.
SPEAKER_02Uh hey, what what challenges are you having right now with your staff? How can I help you with that? Or you know, how many people are you running now? Yeah, how many people are showing up? Like it's not that, it's how are you? How's your wife? How's your kid? I heard your kid was dealing with this issue. You know, it's it's just calling to check in to care.
SPEAKER_00Right. Yeah. And and from that, Jordan, it led to folks then proactively calling back and saying, hey, I have a specific issue that would lead to coaching. And it's not that Kyle or Kate or myself do all the coaching, but because we're connected to each pastor, each church, we're able to say, Hey, this specific situation that came up as you proactively called me. You know who you should talk to? You should talk to this guy because he's been through a similar situation and has walked through the other side. And so it's making those connections amongst our pastors as well.
SPEAKER_01Good. Yeah, uh, I think like there's so many ways. Um, even as you were talking, Buck, like one of the things like when I think of Redeemer Network, uh, Redeemer Network is an immersive network. Uh in that, man, we want uh man, our pastors, our churches to immerse themselves into man, the vision and the values of what's going on, but also like uh man, uh what I love is that the network is proactively saying, hey, man, how can we be there, not only for your pastors, but uh take the idea of being a specialist, right? Like, hey, if you're like, man, I I need counsel and care, and I'm getting that, but also my people need it. And that, like, I'm in over my head. And so what do I do with that? And so being able to go in and and man meet with leaders and equip them to care so that some of the burden, whether, you know, um, you know, whether it's in counseling and care or in uh uh leadership coaching, like that there's just so many aspects that I've seen that man, the network just kind of step into the the um the conference is a huge, huge part of that where you're seeing people coming and just saying, hey, what does it look like to uh be equipped so that we can actually walk alongside our pastors in really, really intentional ways that support them, that show them that they're valued and loved and cared for. And so um yeah, I I could go on and on and on, but it is just beautiful to see kind of what's building and been built by this network.
SPEAKER_02Good.
SPEAKER_00Right. So, I mean, between just regular phone calls, um, the conference that Kyle mentioned, there's also a retreat that's been a part of the network really from its infancy, where we have we initially just got our pastors together um to hear in a longer form collectively how this how's the year gone? And I loved that that was driven by there were tears and there was cheers, right? Like, I mean, there was there was laughter and joy, and there was also prayer through difficult situations that you could watch each year whether a pastor came um and how their year was. And and it wasn't that the same guy was down every year, the same guy was up every year, but we really got to watch the life of the church, the life of their marriages in real time, um, which has now emerged in that we offer uh a a wives retreat every other year um alongside our men's retreat, and then the opposite year, right, that we're getting our pastors and wives together. I mean, so we really are trying to take seriously, we care about the individual and the individual marriage because we know that that leads to healthy churches.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, it's good. Yeah. So Pastors are being pastored. Every pastor in the network has a pastor, and you you two men are doing a lot of that. You you two men are regularly calling, checking in, pastoring other pastors. And it's been such a blessing to me personally, and I know to so many other men. Um, there's a conference, our annual conference is part of the ways that we're trying to support pastors where we put on a really high-quality event every year that helps them equip their teams and connect their teams. You guys both mentioned retreats, the pastor's annual pastor retreat, pastor wives retreat. There's so many ways that we're uh working uh to help pastors stay healthy, stay in the game, not just overcome the challenges of pastoral ministry, but also celebrate the many, many wins and enjoy the work and enjoy the vocation because it is a beautiful, beautiful calling. Is there anything else that comes to mind when you think about what we mean when we say we support pastors? Anything else we do? Do we miss anything?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, Jordan. I think the other thing, one of the things when as Kyle came on and then as Kate has subsequently come on the staff, is I said, Hey, here's how you know you're doing your job well. Um, is when you start getting phone calls. Not just that you're making the calls, but when folks start to reach out in times of of crisis, that that that it's not just them kind of perfunctory receiving a call because that's their responsibility in the network, but that the relationship has really formed this two-way street where without us having to know about it, folks are just calling and saying, Hey, I need help. Um, would you either connect me or would you personally help me through this situation? Um, and and that happens now with regularity that is is really beautiful to see those the depth of relationship that's connected.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, good. Yeah, there's so many really difficult things that can sink pastors. They don't know what to do. They get in situations where they just don't know what to do, whether it be with someone in their church or some organizational problem that they have and and don't know who to call. And so what a beautiful thing to know that it's like, no, I have a lifeline, I have somebody I can call that will care for me and connect me, support me through this really challenging situation. So that is truly a blessing. Because you never know when you're gonna need that, but every pastor does need that uh different moments. So, well, how how have you guys seen these support efforts, these things we've just talked about? How have you seen them bearing fruit in our network?
SPEAKER_01Uh, I mean, I was just thinking of um, you know, of the last couple of years and conversations that I've been able to have with guys, and uh a lot of it is man, just the simple reality of being able to like get on a consistent call where you know, like, man, like if you feel alone, if you feel like, man, where where do I go to just express whether it's hurt or pain or frustration, even, uh, but to have that avenue, uh, just to sit with a another pastor and just allow them just to share, to ask really intentional questions that uh aren't seeking to be Mr. Fix It, uh, but are seeking to say, hey, man, like this is really, really hard. Uh over the last few months, I've been able to just sit with a couple of guys and uh just hear their hearts and just be like, man, I like I I'm one, I'm sorry you're going through that. Um, but but in them expressing that, they're like, but what do I do with it? And and getting to to walk with them through things like lament. Like, what does it look like for you to just crowd and just be real before the Lord? Uh, to take that time just to kind of work through that so and to see them come back the next week and be like, man, one, I've never done that. Uh, because I'm I'm supposed to be good. Like, I'm not supposed to have real like spiritual or emotional need, uh, although I do, like I know I do, uh, to be able to just take that intentional time, I think has just been huge. And you just see uh just in those conversations and over time, just kind of that weight come off, just like, man, like I'm not alone. And uh man, I I just love those moments of just being able to say, hey, uh, this time is not about go, go, go and tackle the next mountain or whatever it is. Like, this is man, but like let's delve in. Let's see, man, what's God doing in your heart? What does he want to do? And and those are uh yeah, just really, really sweet and beautiful moments.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, Jordan, it it's been interesting because sometimes it's it's big stuff. Like, you know, I've I've been along as a couple of guys have actually shut down their church plants, right? They just that that season was over, and then how to do that well, right? And walking through caring for them as they're grieving and caring for their congregation as they're plugging in somewhere else. Like sometimes it's big, significant, weighty things like that. Um, other times it's been um a conversation where I'm just hearing a pastor talk about all the funerals they've done and all the difficult conversations, and like Kyle just mentioned to say, Hey, I'm not sure that you're you've just grieved a lot of loss. And for that to be the light bulb moment, for for in that moment, they didn't have to be pastor, right? They got to be the recipient, and they received something that was was necessary that then provided a moment of of health. Um, one of my favorite stories was because of the years of doing this, um we had a wife one year who's said her her husband wasn't gonna go to the pastor's retreat because he was just worn out and decided, you know, just feeling down. And she texted uh the the three local pastors kind of in their area and said, He's coming, don't leave without him. I've got his bag packed and I'm dropping him off. And and it wasn't right, it was it was beautiful in that she knew the benefit he would receive and the the way that he would come back different and better because of time with his his fellow pastors, and because she had seen that over the years and trusted that she could kind of in a way out him in that moment and it not cause any like irreparable harm of reputation or relationship. Um, that there was a bit of humor in it, but also a seriousness of this is needed, and I want to make sure it happens, and there was trust to do it.
SPEAKER_02Um it's really beautiful, man. It's yeah, that is a that's a great small little artifact of the fruit, uh that that that effort, that retreat, um, and how it uh puts wind in the sails of men in our network to stay in the work, continue the work. I'll I'll tell a story real quick just from a personal level. In um December of 2023, my wife, uh totally healthy, young, healthy, uh just out of nowhere, had a stroke. And it was it totally rocked our world. Uh, she was in the ICU for a week, and we weren't really sure what caused it, how she was going to recover, all of those kinds of things. And um, I remember exactly where I was. I was parked, I was filling up my truck with gas at HEB, and I got a phone call from Jeremy Buck. Uh, this was probably a month after Sammy had a stroke. And in that month, I had been loved so well by my church. They brought meals for us, they were praying for Sammy. Um, was loved super well by our church. Um, but Jeremy asked me a question that nobody else had asked me. Everybody I would see would ask me, Hey, how's Sammy? How's she doing? We're praying for her. And Jeremy said to me, he said, Jordan, how are you doing? Um, and it was almost from this place of like, hey, I know, I get it. Like, your wife is not healthy, so you've got an increased burden at home. The ministry, the church didn't just stop and pause. Uh, you still have sermons to prep and you still have ministry work to do. Um, your partner is down and out in this season. Like, how are you? And that was such a just small, simple thing, but so powerful. Just to go, actually, you know, I don't know actually how I am. Let me think about that for a minute and answer that question and share with you and process with you and with the Lord. And I just know that that kind of thing is happening all the time with like all 40 pastors in our network that that those kinds of things are happening, and God is using them to sustain and strengthen and support so many people to stay in this important um work that we're called to. And so I'm thankful for the work that you guys are doing and how the network is even blessing me as a pastor.
SPEAKER_00Jordan, I think what it's done is it's it's removed a measure of posturing that can can often be a part of pastoral circles, uh, because there's just this expectation we're gonna be uh checking on, caring, and supporting one another. That then permeates the entire culture of the network. Um, and so you see it at the conference, you taste it at the retreats, you see it with pastors and wives, and there's not this sense of I have to perform for these men, but they're for me. I think that's if if we were gonna like really sum it up, that's that's what's emerged.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. Yeah, good. Well, let's end with this. I mean, if there's someone that's listening to this, whether they're in one of our churches or maybe someone even outside the network that stumbled upon this and they feel like they are in a tough spot in ministry right now, uh, what would you say to them? Any wisdom, any counsel, any next steps?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, reach out. Um, you know, if whether that and listen, it don't you don't have to go through the official channels of reaching out to Kyle or reaching out to me or asking like which one of those guys is it supposed to be? Um reach out to any of our guys and and know that because this is the culture, they're gonna connect you to the right resource. Um, that there's a desire and a longing for you to be healthy, um, for your wife to be healthy, um, and for your kids to be healthy. Uh, and we didn't even really talk about that, but you know, we're parenting in such a variety of stages, and you know, guys are dealing with real, real issues with kids, whether that's foster care or adoption, whether that's discipline, whether that's um, you know, their kids coming to the Lord, that yeah, we want to be a space where where you feel the freedom to reach out and just start the conversation.
SPEAKER_02Kyle, what about you?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I I think um just in terms of reaching out, like, don't wait. Um uh so often, um like especially in pastoral ministry, it's just like, well, I'll get to it later. And uh or or maybe that's the expectation of hey, you know, we'll get to you later, uh, right now, like and and man, you've got to prioritize your own like soul care, um, and and use that agency to just step in and say, hey, I I have need, and and man, I'm I'm really struggling. And so, and if you're um and if your church isn't listening, like we want to listen and we want to connect you to the right people and the right um man care to uh man uh encourage you. Uh and and I think that the really cool thing is like is you know, that's whether you're in the network or if you're just listening, you're like, man, like I I don't have a grid for this. Uh like do reach out and like let's I I like I know myself and no Jeremy and Kate, like if you have a wife that is in need and it like just to start a conversation and then say, hey, what does it look like to get you man cared for and supported uh so that you can do this for the long haul. Yeah, because we don't want our pastors burning out. We don't want their wives burning out or their families, or you know, we want to see them thriving and healthy and encouraged.
SPEAKER_02Good. Well, we love pastors, uh Redeemer Network pastors, we love you, we care for you. Um, we want to support you. It's it's a it's a one of our pillars. It's what we exist to do as a network, not just to plant churches, but to support pastors toward health. And so we love you, we care for you. Um, and Jeremy and Kyle, uh, we love you guys and thankful for you, thankful for the work that you do and how you step into this. I mean, you have so many burdens just in your own church, and yet you you love pastors so much that you are giving your time uh to walk with them as well. And so thank you. I'll just honor you for the work you do. Thank you, thank you. We love you, and um, and thanks for joining me today.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, thanks, Jordan. Appreciate it.